Victoria: 0:00

Welcome back to The Startup of Human Potential. We're your co-hosts.

Clifton: 0:03

I'm Clifton, And I'm Victoria. together we are Faces of the Future. Faces. of the Future is a venture studio with a personal development platform at the intersection of consciousness, connection, innovation, and wellbeing. We're excited to have you join us on our show.

Victoria: 0:23

Today's episode is brought to you by Kefir Lab We have our, first Power Couple on the show here with us today. Erika and Dario co-founders of Kefir Lab. Welcome.

Clifton: 0:36

Hi guys.

Victoria: 0:37

Erika and Dario I'd love to get a into a little background about Kefir lab. First of all do you guys wanna become a trillionaire? That's one of the taglines that Kefir Lab uses to refer to the amount of probiotics that is in the product. Third party tested and verified., Their company has won several awards

Clifton: 0:57

they each have an incredible list of accomplishments from TV appearances to speaking opportunities, including Entrepreneur of the Year Award. And when they combine, they combine to create their beingness based business that's a byproduct of their own individual journeys as well as their relationship. And that is Kefir labs.

Victoria: 1:19

Yes, and in today's episode we'll talk about Erika and Dario each individually and Kefir lab and how it's a natural byproduct of who they both organically are, and of course, gut health. We love gut health, so welcome.

Dario: 1:35

Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. Love to be here, love to be part of the show. Erika,

Erika: 1:41

Yeah, I love to be here.

fotf---clifton_3_10-13-2023_134801: 1:43

Dario, let to get our listeners up and running in terms of how you came to meet

Clifton: 1:50

the lovely Erika. What's that story?

Dario: 1:53

Kefir Lab, Kefir Love. So the lovely story behind us was that I moved to the States over 10 years ago. I am from Italy. You can kind of get it from my accent that I will never be able to. Talk a smooth. And working in food manufacturing, always in food, love, passion about food, nutrition, food science. I got dived into this different conception of uh, making food from the art of making food that we have in Europe to the making food. The more industrialized, more processed, slightly less nutrition now for our bodies. And I didn't change my habits in having mostly wheat and flour products and here too much refine, these products kind of make me, I don't wanna say sick, but I start to feel the difference. when I start to dive and dig into the probiotics, the gut health, food science. I met my lovely wife that she moved from Toronto. I would, I would always say that she moved from me, but I would never know that story and being from a family of microbiologists, we were able to link exactly what we were more capable of. Passion and food manufacturing on my side and the science behind food and the science behind probiotics, and gut health from her. And we merged this both incredible power into a new category, a trendy one actually that is rising and hot on the market, aisle and shelf that is functional food. So why do we need to. Get sick and only rely on pharma or supplement or medicine. Why? We can just heal ourself and feel ourself the best every day and thrive through food, through proper food to pure, natural, organic, wholesome form food and that's the value of Kefir Lab, and that's what we're doing. Try to teach, educate, mention our customer and everybody that to have a beautiful, joyful life, we just need to stay healthy through food, nutrition, proper exercise, mindfulness,

Victoria: 4:16

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 4:17

proper Proper sleep, and all these thing combine. There's no way you won't be able to enjoy, smile, and be happy every single day, even depression or whatever make you send that moment goes away because your brain get nourished from the energy of food and all this kind of other energy combined.

Victoria: 4:36

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 4:37

And here we are working and sharing our life together since 2019 regarding Kefir lab, that's when we started. And since couple of, earlier, since the day we met in San Francisco,

Victoria: 4:51

Amazing. Wow. Thanks for sharing Dario. There's a lot in what you just shared. And did I hear you say that you worked in the restaurant business with your family and it impacted like the gut health or the microbiome or something. I remember you sharing in a previous time we met with you that you had to do like gluten-free eating. Is that something that you're doing now or is like the probiotics helping?

Dario: 5:18

let's say that I was born and raised in Italy with mostly of our energy coming from starches and carbs rather and fat. Something that here people wouldn't even understand and say, how can you get sugar? All your best carbs all day long? But that's our, so it's a different plant. It's a different living organism. It's a completely different type of wheat we're talking about.

Victoria: 5:42

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 5:42

People sometimes get, even like, cannot even imagine that you can get a whole pizza by yourself in Italy when here you, you split a whole pizza, a whole pie between two to three people. It's really the food itself, it's completely different. So I was able in Italy to be raised with wheat.

Victoria: 5:58

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 5:59

And once I moved here 10 year ago, I didn't change my kind of diet. I was, while instead I would suggest people to get local. So if you move around the globe, try to eat local. So I didn't do that 10 year ago. I start to develop some autoimmune disorder, some gut digestion issue, brain fog, of course, some weight gain that you get. You don't really understand what's happening. I knew I wasn't even 30. I was still in my beautiful twenties and I said, there's no way I feel like this. I feel like crap.

Victoria: 6:35

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 6:36

Just having food, so eating, it was making me sleepy right away. I say food should make you plenty energy. You should eat food and go out there and run and be energetic. You know, it can be the opposite. make you all, sometimes make you even upset that you're angry because you need food. You know, the consequences would be under productive, sleepy, and So that what happened on me. I don't wanna say I became gluten intolerant, but became gluten fear. I was try to stay away from it. And currently I Try still enjoy gluten, but I'm more selective type of gluten, on the sorts of carbs where are made. If it's organic, how it's grown like biodynamic because the processing of food is what deprive the food the from its nutritional value, so the less the better that's my motto.

Clifton: 7:35

Gotcha. And I love what you said about, the probiotics just instantly helping you feel good. And the process that happens, you know, is similar to what it's like to hang out with you and Erika together as a couple to couple. We just feel good in your presence. And on that note, Erika, you know, we'd your story and of connecting to Kefir Labs and what your perspective is on how you created Kefir Labs.

Erika: 8:06

Yeah, of course. I'd love to share that. And uh I guess my story came to be generations behind. My grandma used to be a renouned probiotic researcher and she used to cure people through the God. And she was studying from this guy, his name is Ilya Mechnikov. He was a Russian, but he was living in uh, France. In France. And so my grandma studied from him and end up receiving a Nobel Prize for discovering probiotics and its impact on anti-aging.

Victoria: 8:38

Mm-Hmm.

Erika: 8:38

he discovered that as long as people have probiotics in their guts, they stop aging. And the reason people age is because their microbiome changes. So my grandma was all about it. And she was curing people. She was making people that would go, that would lose hair. She would make the hair to grow back just from probiotics. And so I guess my dad is a biomedical doctor, so I have the whole family background of being more like a functional medical practitioners rather than just a general doctor. So I grew up drinking a lot of probiotic since I was, a little infant. And the problem happened is when I moved to Canada when I was 15, I, as of a sudden, I stopped having this probiotics that my body was so used to. And I started a little bit sick, like a little bit fatigue. Like, I just stopped being myself in a way. And then I had to start learning, making it myself. You know, I'm person that if I miss something, I'll figure out how to get it, how to do it. So I started making it myself, and I start sharing with neighbors, I had all my Kefir jars, like my cottage cheese and then I would share with neighbors. They would notice a difference, then they would start making it. And then always people would encourage me to create a company. I was doing so much stuff when I was living in Canada. I was, I had my fashion startup. I was doing modeling, I was studying into universities at the same time. So I had a lot going on. It wasn't really a good time to create a company. And also I didn't know anybody to create it beside me, and I probably wouldn't done it by myself. So back to when 17, I went to San Francisco as a tourist, was just traveling, you know, I just decided to take a cool trip by myself when I finished my bachelor's and I met Dario at his restaurant. I was just looking for some Italian food just because I, I know that it might be a better quality in US, you know? And I was staying in a hotel. And I met him at his restaurant and We start chatting, you know, and then, we had a conversation, you know, then I left of course, how it happens. And then back when we started dating and then we started being together, I moved to San Francisco, not because of him, but

Victoria: 10:57

Mm-Hmm.

Erika: 11:00

that aside. Fast forward to 2019, we created a company just because I was doing a master's degree and I created the project as part of my master's degree and so that, Dario was having his own job. But then he saw the amount of success that we're getting with Kefir Lab. The demand was high, the demand was higher than he can produce, so he had to quit his job and had to make some serious decisions. Had to be an entrepreneur.

Victoria: 11:27

Wow. Yeah. So I love how, Kefir is a big part of your, upbringing and background as a Russian immigrant. And I myself am a Ukrainian immigrant, so I grew up drinking Kefir products and I have to say this tastes the best out of any I've ever tried. And I've had my share of them with my, my family for sure. And for some of our audience members who may not know what Kefir is, can you explain what it's a, probiotic, it's a dairy product you guys have ones that aren't even dairy products. So,'cause I know a lot of are dairy intolerant. Could you dive into that a little bit, please?

Erika: 12:04

Kefir is a fermented milk, and it could come from any base, and it's similar to yogurt. It's just more drinkable. It's something that can be, have on the go rather than yogurt. You have to have it with a spoon. And how our Kefir is different. How Kefir Lab is different from other Kefir in the market is that we use a different, completely different kind of probiotics. It's not it's not just the yogurt cultures that are just meant to ferment milk and they don't reside in our gut. They're just like culture milk. And that's it. You know, We use scientific based probiotic strains that I, thanks to my family generation of biomedical doctors we formulate in our own lab. That's why we call Kefir lab. And our kefirs and probiotic shots are particularly effective and people usually can feel the difference right away. And people are able to cure different diseases, different autoimmune disease. Usually people see Really great impact from having Kefir and, or at least some mood boost, as I remember. Clifton

Victoria: 13:02

Yes.

Erika: 13:03

in one of our dinners together.

Victoria: 13:05

Uhhuh Yeah. For our listeners uh, the four of us got together at Erewhon, which sells Kefir lab products. And I think we had this coconut one that I'm drinking right now. Or a sample.

Erika: 13:17

First ever version of that? Yeah.

Victoria: 13:19

And Clifton.

Erika: 13:21

Yeah.

Victoria: 13:21

So it's the first ever version of it. I think you had a mockup label or something. It wasn't even manufactured, you're like, here guys, here's some samples. And Clifton got blissed out. Basically just

Clifton: 13:33

I did, it was most potent food as medicine experiences. I just drank some of it and I wanted to save some so I could continue to ferment it at home, but I'm not sure it lasted'cause it was so good. And we walked around Venice canals here in Southern California, in Venice Beach. And I just kept getting all this information excitement about what these probiotics could do. And, there's a difference when the probiotics are in a drink or in a form like this versus, um, I've taken probiotic capsules and there to be a difference. And Dario really, I'd love for you to share with our listeners the science behind why I went through such a profound shift compared to taking it in capsule form.

Victoria: 14:20

Yeah. I believe the quote Dario said is, you have to wake the sleeping probiotics in his amazing accent.

Dario: 14:28

I remember something like that. Yeah. Probiotics in a food form is like considering the vitamin C and having a full orange. You don't get just the benefit of one single strain, two or three from a powder that is definitely highly processed, encapsulated, sterile, shelf stable. Outside from the fridge. You get a more potent because here what we're looking for, effectiveness, potent, something like really that you can make you feel the difference. And here we're talking about fermentation, the power of exponential growth. So you can add like some probiotics in the base and you can achieve uh, doubling in size every 20 to 30 minutes. that's how bacteria replicate naturally So once you ferment for a few hour or overnight some product, you see that you were able to reach not million or billion but trillion of probiotics

Victoria: 15:25

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 15:25

in addition to our expertise in proper matching probiotics strain, acidity, pH, and uh, minerals, everything that help and aid the fermentation. But what I'm saying is that a proper fermented food can definitely, cannot even be considered similar to a encapsulated freeze, dried processed pill Also because the bio product of fermentation isn't just. A multiplication of the probiotic by itself, by, it's a multiplication of so many different enzymes and other microbiologic uh, moleculars, bio fermentation that they come along with fermentation and they get absorbed from our body and they you a boosting of benefit. So when you get an orange, you're not purely having a vitamin C. Of course you're having fiber, vitamin C enzymes, nutrients, hundreds of different stuff. Then some vitamin C powder to put in your water and drink it. cannot compare it. Maybe it's the market. Maybe they want to market in the way. Maybe it's the industry that they wanna push for supplement. But if you're aware of nutrition and how food is medicine act in your body, you need complete picture. You just a single element, sometimes even because of bio. Bio ability, we're not able, we're not even able to absorb that nutrient without something else that act along with it. Like some enzymes or some other Ingredients. So the whole form of anything in nature is always better than the supplement form. That was trying to explain To c Clifton that walk saying always go natural whenever there's no marketing, go walk in a store, whatever is no billboard marketing or nothing related to ads. That's the food you want. So go in a produce section. I don't have to market some lettuce. That's the food you want for your health.

Clifton: 17:28

That's a really great

Victoria: 17:29

I love that

Clifton: 17:29

love that. Yeah. You don't see carrots themselves. Buy me You just know that.

Victoria: 17:37

Yeah. Yeah. And what you're describing, Dario we're very familiar with Clifton, and I went to a seminar from Dr. Schultz a little while ago, not the foot doctor, the super food green and super C and all of his products are also made from like the peels of the oranges and acerola cherries. Rather than getting the like ascorbic acid, which comes from China and just like the isolate. And he talks about how there's a lot of different like micronutrients in that orange that support the absorption of vitamin C. Like you're talking about that. Some of them we haven't even discovered them in a lab yet. Like we know some of the B vitamins, but maybe there's like vitamin B 49 that we haven't found yet. But the orange has nature's intelligence in it, like you said. So it already knows what's needed as like co absorption nutrients. I love that.

Clifton: 18:31

Erika, I really wanna just anchor in that this has been a lineage you've been stewarding so there's deep science to it. And instead of going to a doctor to get prescribed. Some sort of remedy

Victoria: 18:43

Yeah.

Clifton: 18:44

You

fotf---clifton_3_10-13-2023_134801: 18:44

know, they can either intentionally or unintentionally

Clifton: 18:48

grab the Kefir, in a supermarket. Right. And what has been some unique feedback that you've gotten Erika, about the people who've used Kefir.

Erika: 18:58

Well, let's not forget the pleasure that we receive, drink like Kefir, and thanks to Dario Italian expertise and food that he was able to formulate that it's pretty, it's very tasty. Or again, like having an orange, as we discussed earlier, versus chugging some pills. In my opinion, everything in life has to be pleasure. So I guess that definitely adds an element. Personally, I'm not against supplements. I think that there are some very cool supplements and they're necessary, but just an act of swallowing a pill makes me feel like I'm sick, even though it a probiotic pill or whatever. That might be for me, but just, I prefer food as medicine. feel like it's more, the probiotics in food has been studied in generations, whereas like encapsulating probiotic, it's something very new. Like we don't really know. And so I guess that's a big element of that. And particularly about the feedback that we're able to get. I know there is a lot of Reddit posts. There is a lot of stuff on the internet that people write about Kefir Lab. There was a lawyer famous lawyer actually, he's a lawyer of Elon Musk and Jay-Z And that

Victoria: 20:05

Wow.

Erika: 20:05

he created a Reddit, that he was able to cure SIBO within four weeks after having probiotic. Whereas he try everything for 10 years, he had an access to the best doctors out there and nothing would ever help. He tried all of the antibiotics, he tried all of the medicines and nothing would ever help. He said that the celery juice and Kefir Lab together help him to cure his SIBO in, in a matter of four weeks. And I know that there are other people that would replicate his kinda like protocol it would be successful. So I guess that's one of the most recent feedback that we got. But have a lot of amazing feedback of people fighting different sorts of autoimmune diseases, depression, anxiety fatigue, sibo, ibs, leaky gut. There is numerous benefits across all the roads, and we did receive feedback from all of customers that was, we're grateful for that. People always reach out to us every single day, open my email, and I'm just um, smiling all the time because people are just so nice and sharing everything that they been experiencing.

Victoria: 21:09

Mm-Hmm.

Erika: 21:09

And so this is just a number of them.

Clifton: 21:12

Wow.

Victoria: 21:13

Wow. Amazing.

Clifton: 21:15

How are you taking all of this feedback and where are you taking Kefir Labs now? know it's available in Erewhon and a few supermarkets. Where can our listeners find it and what's in store for the future of Kefir Labs?

Erika: 21:28

Our products are available online, nationwide, and we do ship worldwide. After that Reddit incident, we to open up our shipments so that it's more accessible for everybody in the world. So we do ship to Europe, we do ship to UK, we do ship to Australia pretty much everywhere. and so the best way to get it is online through our website. We do sell it in a number of organic grocery stores. I guess it's hundreds to 300 stores. I don't know Dario would know it It's mostly the organic grocery store, like Erewhon, Lassens in California. There is Central Market in Texas,

Victoria: 22:05

Mm-Hmm.

Erika: 22:05

different organic stores. Hopefully soon we might sell in Whole Foods and Sprouts.

Victoria: 22:10

Mm-Hmm.

Erika: 22:11

Everything's getting there, But online is the best bet and we do offer free shipping for everybody ordering in US

Victoria: 22:19

Amazing. And we'll drop a link for where people can get a subscription or their first box of Kefir Labs in the show notes all this publicity a around like Reddit and celebrity endorsements for how it's helped them and whatnot. I know Dario you were mentioning you've been contacted by other organizations to help with a dog food or something as well.

Dario: 22:41

Being Italian, I love to chat with every customer, regardless of question they might ask, may ask something about the shipping, might be a concern, not start a conversation that sometimes doesn't even end. Just like keep going. Like, Italian grandma talk, talk for hours and hours. But I love relation with my customer and sometimes the phone, the text. And it ended up that one of our customer were using probiotics as a meal topper for their cats and dogs. And that was interesting for me. I'll share with Erika. Oh, you know, they also give it to dog and cats and she was more informative than me, she said, of course. What do you think? They have this very similar microbiome as us as a human, so makes sense they gave it to their dog and cats. It was like, wow. And this guy ended up to have one of the biggest pet food company in the United States,

Victoria: 23:35

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 23:36

they'd like to develop a meal topper with us and supply their 3000 stores along the states. And that's a huge opportunity for us and also a big opportunity to share the value of gut health and probiotics with the, with the world Because I believe that we just need to keep educating people and our customer. I think it's a trend and all now it's a niche, gut health probiotics, but I see in 10 years from now, everybody like be conscious of what does it mean, taking care of their gut. It's like,

Victoria: 24:07

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 24:07

how long being fit you, you know that exercise, proper exercise is important for your

Victoria: 24:13

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 24:14

brain health and your physical activity. So taking care of your gut will be something normal in the future. Even if now it's still, you want to get some questions, like question answers, and why is that important after it wouldn't be the why. You are just aware of it. And this for dog food and this also for so many other different product that they are out there. They use preservatives or contaminant that they. Are artificially made, and instead through the power of fermentation, you can get rid of preservatives and extend the shelf life in the most natural way, thanks to the lactic acids or the probiotic, living in it, and extend the product shelf life without adding preservative, why do you need to add preservatives. You can ferment the product. So something very nice is that on a store shelf, you start pay attention Here. Over here, the store, the space in the store dedicated to probiotics is little by little. Growing, growing, growing, growing. So it means that the consumers are more aware of it. So consumer demand. So we just need to be there and supply to the consumer. So I'm happy to see this space growing. It means people are getting aware, educated on it

Victoria: 25:26

Yeah. Education is a big piece for sure. And you guys do a great amount of that, and I love that you're helping animals too. You know, this podcast is called The Startup of Human Potential. And one of the reasons we have you on here is because one way to optimize your human potential is to optimize your gut, right? That affects your performance. It affects your mood, as you said, and your functioning as a high performer. And we're talking about dog and cat potential here too. Optimize animals.

Dario: 25:58

It's cool to mention also that artisanal made kefirs are made out of a SCOBY. It's a complex, combination of yeast and bacteria.

Victoria: 26:11

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 26:11

some people may be concerned about the presence of yeast inside the SCOBY because you replicate yeast it can damage the gut and also pets wanna stay away from yeast So what make us unique also that we found a way to extract the pure probiotic strain or the species of that bacteria removing the yeast part. So we don't use any SCOBY. We inoculated the base with our own formulated probiotics extracted from the Kefir crane, there's no yeast in it. So our product is yeast free, and that's very important. That's a key to lots of people that might suffer of some gastrointestinal disorder or pets that you don't wanna feed them with yeast, because you can do the opposite effect in their gut. So that's why they really love our product because It's also yeast free

Victoria: 27:03

Wow beautiful mm-Hmm.

Clifton: 27:04

And I know we can dive into science on science on science and what's nice to know is that Kefir Labs has the science and, Erika said, You also have delicious taste, right? Like you make that, because I know that it really is almost like chemistry or something in terms of the balance of sugars and fats and things and that nature to, to grow them and then also for it to taste good and like the right texture or consistency. Can you help walk through that process and how your background really helped?

Dario: 27:37

That, that little started on me thanks to Erika, because once I met Erika and we started living together, she's, she was just replicating her staple food that's Kefir at home without buying the commercialized one. She never liked the one that bought on store, so she was making her own. I mean, I was very, I'm a very curious guy, very interesting, everything, and I like to taste food. I like to try, I like to play with it. And was looking at these weird jars with something going on inside. said, what's going on on those jars and she introduced me to Kefir, to fermentation. It's something more on an northern culture of Europe, but not the Italian. Definitely we know about yogurt but not kefir. So I said, lemme try. But my first experiences with Kefir was kind of off, I felt high acidity. I didn't like it wasn't really a pleasure experience.Was more the experience now, you know, like, okay, I need to eat healthy. I need to eat sugar free. I need to eat. Something good for your gut, something good for your health, but you are already aware that the food tastes awful. Why food needs to taste bad and be good you. Can't you really find a combination a balance and be healthy and good to taste at the same time? So one was my job. I said, Erika, listen, I'm gonna make the thing taste good somehow. I don't know how now, but I'll make it good. And

Victoria: 29:05

You put the ingredient of passion into it.

Dario: 29:08

yeah, and I start basically learning on. So I start taking classes of food science fermentation. I mean I kind of get some idea also from the wine industry in Italy that were very big about also aging process fermentation. And I came out with a selection of some probiotic species that can either increase the acidity or not and give a taste profile to the base. as a bio product to fermentation, you also get a flavor. So depending on the species you use, you get as a result, a taste. So you play also with the strain that you innoculate the base to receive a taste. So it took like one year even more in try, different combination of species, and then I was to find that nice. Probiotic actually highly probiotic because we can reach above a trillion mild taste flavor of that solution. So start giving to Erika to try and say, this is mine. Try. And she was like, what? I love it. What is this? still kefir, improved better. And that's, don't wanna say my job, but that's my passion. Food, it's art. Art Has to be beautiful and in this case has taste great. So I'm happy that you enjoy and appreciate the taste of our, because I feel like a grateful and accomplished for that part

Victoria: 30:48

Wow.

Clifton: 30:48

That's awesome

Victoria: 30:49

it sounds like, complete food alchemy. It's like food science, but food alchemy as well. Pouring the, love into it. The hours of research, the combining or mating the probiotic species.

Dario: 31:01

yeah, blending them.

Victoria: 31:03

Okay.

Clifton: 31:04

sacrificing or just at the science, but making it a full spectrum enjoyable experience. And

Dario: 31:12

Yeah.

Clifton: 31:13

My question to you Erika, is did you imagine that this was how your company, would grow, coming from a family of, microbiome, researchers,, oftentimes there's a very traditional, approach towards building a business and finding a business partner. But like you just followed your gut literally your taste your desire for great food. How has this kind of unfolded and is that sort of a natural philosophy that you have towards building a business? I.

Erika: 31:44

I guess I could never imagine the exponential growth that we got with Kefir Lab. I could definitely imagine myself being an entrepreneur because that's the only thing I. I wanted to do in my life. I'm actually a very bad person to work for someone, and I guess they're gonna fire me the first day because you tell me to do something, I'm gonna do exactly the opposite. So I knew that my way is to be an entrepreneur because I'm more, I'm a protagonist and know if, you know, the Myers Briggs personality test. So I like to create things. I like to make things happen. And Kefir was something that I was so passionate about, like I was making it every single day. And I guess Dario saw my passion that I was really excited about making it. Then when we just released it on the market in 2019, we, our first was at the farmer's market in San Francisco, and when we just came there, we were like, you never believe you have this idea that something that you made kinda like in a home kitchen that anyone is gonna want it. And we put a very high price on it, like the first bottle costed, I think$9. There was no organic certification, there was no label, nothing whatsoever, which was like a glass jar and there was like something sticked on it, like, okay, it's Kefir And yeah, we got sold out in the first two hours and then we did a pilot test a very location. And then again, like we run out of all the product in one hour and then everything would kind of like show the success. So we decided to invest in it and to make it a business. And I would never imagine myself being what I am right now without Kefir Lab. I guess it's because you never imagine the exponential growth that something can have

Victoria: 33:27

Mm-Hmm. Just like the probiotics in your product exponential growth

Erika: 33:32

Yeah. I guess only one thing that I, know for sure is that doing the right thing. We haven't done any marketing up to date. Everything has grown organically. And not to say that I'm against marketing, but I just felt that it's gonna dilute into thinking that you have a great product without you having a great product. So it's important to receive that feedback from people. And for me, it was always important to do something that brings value to people. And I always thought that the money will follow the successful following everything will follow. Kind of like just after that so for me, that was primal goal, and I guess I kind of knew that based on the amount of value that I give people, there would be an equal return in that. So.

Victoria: 34:18

Yeah, absolutely. And as we mentioned earlier in the episode, Erika was awarded a Female Entrepreneur of the Year award, so congratulations on that, Erika.

Erika: 34:29

Thank you.

Victoria: 34:31

Yeah, it's so cool. And what Clifton's question was also alluding to is how, when we're aligned to our passion, when we're working on a business that's a natural byproduct of who we are. Like you were cultivating the kefir in jars, right? Creating like a home lab, Dario comes along, brings in the passion and the taste buds and the food science, and it just, it grows, and it becomes a natural byproduct of who you are. And like you said, the money flows as a natural byproduct of providing that service, of creating that value for humanity.

Erika: 35:02

Mm-Hmm.

Victoria: 35:04

I love that.

Clifton: 35:05

so so now I feel like our listeners understand Kefir labs if they haven't already gone online to buy it. amazing. And, wanted to spend the next segment kinda diving into the dynamics, you know, of the power couple of working on

Victoria: 35:22

Hmm.

Clifton: 35:23

a project together. Wearing different hats. You know, sometimes you have to uncomfortable or challenging conversations as business leaders, but business partners and you're also living together and, all of the, this fun and wanted to see Victoria. Where should we start on this very juicy, juicy topic of.

Victoria: 35:44

Yeah. I mean, this is an interesting discussion for the four of us to have, because each of us are in business with our partner. We wear the hat of relationships, we wear the hat of you know living together. We wear the hat of business co-founders and like, how do you guys stay balanced in managing all the different hats? I know you have, a lot of good role differentiation in Kefir lab. So how else do you guys navigate that multi hat nature?

Dario: 36:10

I want to begin saying that it's not as simple, it's not as simple as you said. I think we're here today talking and the universe is here because of the balance of everything. Because of the balance. We are where we are. So if we want to keep our relation going as a married couple and also see our company succeed, we always need to prioritize the balance of two energy and priorities together. If you give too much attention to work, you might see a boost in the work, but for the short term, because whatever you are lacking and missing from the opposite side, that's your private life would interfere and plateau and drop drastically the performance of the job. Mm-Hmm. And same would happen reversed if I stop even thinking about work. And from tomorrow, we only think about ourselves rather beautiful. We probably see a drop in a work performance and maybe also in our relation because the work performance and the financials that drop may bring consequences to our private life. So I feel that you always need to balance whatever you're doing. And because we are not going in a straight, smooth, linear way, your car during this adventure always tend to shift right and left. is your job, your duty, your responsibility to keep going back to track like a train, sometimes tend to one side, you wanna put it back and then you wanna put it back. And being in balance with regular up and down, that the downside of it does not necessarily. Means bad, but it means as a boost a footer growth. Is that the trend need to be always uptrend.

Victoria: 38:26

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 38:27

And beside this up and down, both in work and private life, you want to see the big picture of the long run. And I believe in a balance. So you should be a super human in this case. And able not to do one thing, but two things that both are your priority. So you cannot say one or the other one, but both of them to keep them on track so you don't have to focus on performance, but you have to focus on keep it in balance together because it's the balance of it that build the performance of both of them combined.

Victoria: 39:10

Yeah.

Dario: 39:11

believe in a balance of work and private life, especially in a married couple,

Victoria: 39:16

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 39:17

to be able to grow both side of the business and our life together.

Victoria: 39:23

Yeah. Absolutely. And something Clifton and I talk about a lot too, because we talk about entrepreneurs and living their total life of joy. Total means you're not sacrificing the other areas of life for business success. And in a relationship partnership like this, it's especially crucial, right? Because like you said, you're working on that uptrend and having awareness and balance of when things are falling out of alignment, going off track. So yeah, Erika, I'd love to know like, how do you guys know when things feel out of alignment or how do you guys have the awareness when things might need to be shifted more into balance?

Erika: 40:04

Gut feeling.

Victoria: 40:06

Yeah.

Erika: 40:09

Well, it's challenging. I won't lie. It's still challenging to this day. And I guess going more to practice, we decided to put boundaries on when the work day finish I know Clifton taught us something fantastic. I don't know, or maybe it was your idea initially, but I remember when we met, he had uh, gratefulness alarms. that's a really nice, a really nice practice to have. And for me personally, I believe that investing in yourself since the morning, like powering yourself up for the day with energy. I, we, I have a very strict morning routine, getting into the flow. I guess that's the most important. That would affect my performance during the day. then knowing when to stop working. Also, it's important like when it's, when it's done. Everything until the next day. And because especially for females, I think it's way more challenging than for a man because we have to balance, in order to be a great partner in the relationship, we have to express our feminine energy. And that's, in my case, it's my dominant energy. I do have a pretty, pretty tight balance. I do have a lot of masculine energy too, but in order to excel in work, we do need to express our masculine energy. And knowing when to switch it might be challenging. So it's really challenging to know. So putting some boundaries just as like timing. For example, for us, we finish our work day at 5:00 PM and then it's done. And then I'm a wife.

Victoria: 41:40

Yeah.

Erika: 41:40

Sometimes you still have that. Usually I like to do some sort of a meditation or something just to kind of like, or going for a walk, you know, just to have that break in between Dario doesn't do that most of the time, but I know he stays more in a masculine energy, he can stay working until like midnight But for me it's important. And as we know, usually the woman brings the energy in a family in a house. Usually it's like, I don't wanna say the woman job, but the main influence usually comes from a woman. So I think it's an important work that a woman should do. Getting the energy right.

Victoria: 42:16

Yeah. There's several interesting things in what you just said, Erika. One, I wanna hear about your morning routine some more. And two the whole balance that you're talking about. The, masculine and feminine energetics of being the CEO, boss lady, co-founder with Dario, your partner. You know, there's a lot of masculine energy you have to bring into work. And Clifton and I navigate that as well. And then Like shifting into that feminine, more receiving, more nurturing, cultivating the family, setting up the right container. Right? Like the masculine's more driving and the feminine's more of that container. Yeah. Clifton and I talk about this topic quite a lot too, because you wanna create some of that polarity in the relationship, so we're not both like masculine driving energy. So yeah, maybe I'd love Clifton if you'd chime in on this too. Yeah

Clifton: 43:04

I would love, because we have both of you here, Dario, if you could share your

Victoria: 43:08

Yeah.

Clifton: 43:08

reflection on what Erika said, like do you notice this shift? Do you stay in your masculine? How does her conscious choice at 5:00 PM to switch. Roles and switch your energy. How do you feel it and do you follow the same kind of pattern or do you have something that works for you as well that's different?

Dario: 43:30

I think that it's important to, I don't wanna say that it's like acting, but once you are doing your business hours and you are an entrepreneur, an employee, or you're like in your work mode, you're like the, your iPhone switch to on, you have to remind yourself that you're working.

Victoria: 43:56

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 43:56

Of course, you always keep the attention to your other half that can be next to you working remotely or somewhere else because you still are responsible of your, you still are responsible, whatever it is about your family. But can bring uh, stress, anxiety, sometimes joy can be any type of emotions. So that emotions need to remain in a work hour because of course I don't mind to bring joy at home. But sometimes work, we know, especially when you have your own company, might keep you being outside so you can be physically there, but your brain can be somewhere else. And that one take out time from your family time. So you should be able really to. dIsconnect with work once you get inside home because now you have a different job that you cannot prioritize again. But if I have to choose family first.

Victoria: 45:00

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 45:01

So keep your work mind outside the door. Bring your family energy as a husband, as a dad. If you have kids at home, you can't have both at home because they will look at you with someone physically there.

Victoria: 45:22

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 45:22

No mentally there. So you're doing your job halfway. So for what Erika said, I'm still learning because with word, it's easy, with fact is different. I'm still learning, but I would recommend to. on your commute. If you're driving from work to home or from walking or taking the elevator up home to close your eyes. Feel breathing, remind yourself now I'll be a different person. Now. I'm a dad, now I'm a husband. Now I'm in the nest

Victoria: 46:02

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 46:02

of love. Work is outside this door. Don't mix them both because will damage your relation. So that's what I still learning. Life is learning, but try to improve myself.

Victoria: 46:20

Yeah.

Dario: 46:20

hours, other work hours, pleasure. Let's say work. Sometimes people can associate with a, with workout with physically, like mentally, like hard, no it's a

Victoria: 46:34

mm-Hmm.

Dario: 46:34

pleasure, but let's say, let's call it work. Once you get home you have another job to do. The first one, family.

Victoria: 46:44

Hmm.

Clifton: 46:45

That's beautiful.

Victoria: 46:46

And it's a practice. Yeah. It's beautiful. It's a practice, navigating that balance and each time you maybe make a mistake or step out of alignment, it just brings more awareness to how to do it better next time. Right. You're kind of build, measure, learning the relationship and the multi hat nature of this partnership. What about if you're working from home, both of you guys, Erika, do you work from home mostly?

Erika: 47:16

Most of the time, yeah, I like to, sometimes I go to, um, Erewhon

Victoria: 47:21

of course.

Erika: 47:23

but honestly, to be honest with you I do most of my meetings while I walk,

Victoria: 47:27

Mm-Hmm.

Erika: 47:28

so I don't know if you call it from home,

Victoria: 47:30

Okay, got it. And Dario, you're mostly working at the manufacturing space or.

Dario: 47:39

I really work from everywhere. I cannot stay. I'm very like energetic person. I move. I need to feel the freedom I need to, if I feel to be home, I like to be home, but I cannot long time home. So I move from the manufacturing facility to like a common area where you can work co-working space

Victoria: 48:02

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 48:02

home. Meeting with other people. I like to move.

Victoria: 48:06

Yeah.

Dario: 48:07

I want to feel that I'm working from anywhere I feel that day.

Victoria: 48:11

Mm-Hmm. Got you. Yeah. Clifton and I both work from home. He's in one room, I'm in the other room. And it takes a lot of awareness, understanding which hat we're approaching a certain topic from, and like, you know, trying to. Maybe compartmentalize isn't really the right word, but allocate the feelings. Like if we're feeling some kind of frustration or resentment, it's like, oh, I'm feeling it from my business partner role. Or, oh, I'm feeling it from my relationship partner role. And making sure, like we have that conscious awareness about which item we're addressing when we're talking about any tension and coming to

Clifton: 48:45

Yeah.

Victoria: 48:46

resolution.

Clifton: 48:46

Yeah I love what you said Dario, it's almost like a play.'cause we teach a quantum view, a quantum perspective of reality. And we talk about you're creating a morphic field or a morphogenetic field that you can just imagine like

Victoria: 49:00

Mm-Hmm.

Clifton: 49:01

of energy that you're stepping into that represents you in your relationship Erika, you in your family life. when you step into it, you're interacting with it, you're cultivating it, you're nurturing it, you're building it. And then when you're in business, you're stepping into a whole different field of energy that has different results. And so what we talk about is to be very clear on who you are as an individual, so that way when you enter into these different containers or these different energy bubbles, you can operate in a way that's in alignment with who you are and what you'd like to see. And just building these mental frameworks and perspectives can help create differentiation of what. Conversations need to happen where, what emotional processing needs to happen when, and just to be able to build a greater sense of discernment as to, what to say, what to do, and where to go. Because you guys have demonstrated very well, it sounds like, is the, the boundaries between, kefir labs and family that you're creating, right? And so those boundaries exist not just in time. And that's a really great starting point is mark it off. But there's also energy and and said it beautifully, Dario about your mind might be in work gotta to present. how do stay present stepping into roles and feel you two, as couple, at least from our perspective. And course we know in our relationship we. We're presented to the outside world in a certain way, but that's not necessarily the full story of your go-to, Erika you mentioned you have that morning routine that gets you in the flow. What are some things that have really worked in those situations where there might not have been harmony and there might have been a messiness, you know, some people go to a nice restaurant, some people, do a bubble bath, some people go on vacation. What are some of those toolkits that you two use in your relationship when you need to really nurture it

Erika: 51:11

is the question to Dario, I guess, right?

Clifton: 51:13

to either, yeah.

Victoria: 51:15

Yeah.

Clifton: 51:16

Erika what comes to your mind? Yeah. Well, I'll just point out, Erika, what comes to your mind that you nurture the relationship from your feminine perspective?

Erika: 51:26

I guess in my opinion, the best thing for me to do is just to go for a walk or I just drive to the ocean.

Victoria: 51:34

Mm-Hmm.

Erika: 51:35

I go to swim. Usually that's what I do to be fully honest with you. We don't do much. We should do more like of a bonding activities. Things along the line, I guess. Dario likes being productive,

Victoria: 51:50

You say Dario wants to be productive?

Erika: 51:53

I mean, I wanna be transparent. I don't wanna create things up that don't exist. But other than that, the way I try to keep the harmony at home, it's, I think the most important is when there is Kinda like a fire. You don't put you don't make it bigger. You know, Like when I see him being upset or when you see a person being upset, that's not the right moment to kinda like, gravitate the situation more. The best moment is to just stay quiet, you know? And then you can still insert your opinion or whatever, like if you're unhappy with something. But I don't feel like the right situation in the right moment is just in a moment because then it's gonna create like a mess and then, and you're gonna be unhappy. You know? And like your energy is gonna be also involved into that. So I guess that's on my personal level, that's what I found. It's useful for me,

Victoria: 52:42

Mm-Hmm.

Erika: 52:43

but to be honest with you, yeah, I cannot think of any bonding activities. We do go for vacations usually quarterly. That's important just to like Get ourselves out of the situation we're in the place that we're in the house, you know, everywhere. And we usually go for longer vacations, about a month. It's usually in Italy. So I guess we always come back with fresh ideas and fresh energies.

Dario: 53:07

I want to believe that the first bonding activity is to bond with yourself before thinking too bond with the other one. you, since the moment you wake up, everyone can have a different routine that are only made to balance, boost, or amplify your feeling at the moment. Erika mentioned about me seeking for performance'that what my body need. I wake up. I'm happy to be alive. I'm happy to do something new for me, for the world. And I can't wait that energy like to come out from my, from every single part of my body. What trigger more energy to me is sun and sweat. So the idea of waking up and go outside under the sun, having a run. It's what bring me like the energy to set that standard for the rest of the day, for me to keep being energetic, chatty, talky, like energy, bring energy. So even the first meeting you can have at 9:00 AM if you're ready for it with the, not with coffee or the long line at Starbucks, like, oh, I need a coffee to wake up. No, no, You just need some sun on your skin and some sweat

Victoria: 54:23

and an gut.

Clifton: 54:23

maybe

Victoria: 54:24

gut

Clifton: 54:24

some probiotics.

Dario: 54:24

An optimized gut to be able to do your first meeting in a day with that so much energy that at the end would be remarkable. People Wouldn't believe it, that you have so much energy in the morning. So the goal is to be remarkable. First impression is the most important. So that's what trigger my energy. I see on Erika a routine based on yoga, meditation something, more spiritual, breathing exercise. I would do definitely that type of routine myself, but I feel maybe it's more whatever, bring me outside from the work hours. So I'm maybe that would something that I would do after 5:00 PM instead of the beginning of the day. just like a reverse. And I don't want to say that's wrong. That's good. You should listen to yourself and see you need. And bonding activities are definitely the routine of the couple can be cooking together, having food together, go for a walk, go grocery shopping. So everything that make you feel part of something together. Vacation, anything.

Victoria: 55:39

Yeah. Yeah. And what you're saying about, bonding with yourself first, and understanding what routine you need to optimize yourself so you can show up as the best version of yourself. You're saying how Erika's routine looks different from your routine and, you know Clifton and I just talk about it, like, whatever brings you joy.

Erika: 55:56

Mm-Hmm.

Dario: 55:58

Yeah. It's a little disconnected from what we are talking, but I believe that you are the reflection of your business to your consumers. So founders are the culture of the business. So whatever you are, it's reflected on your business. So if you're organized, disorganized, a friendly, chatty, shy. That's also the brand. That's your business. It is just the reflection of you, just the middle of you. So creating Be yourself. Always help because make things always easy. you want to be someone else that you not naturally are you wouldn't be even believe from others because you cannot lie. So as we are chatting with you, talking with you, sharing our opinion with you, how probably you can see from our landing page. If you go on our landing page on the website, you'll see like smiling people chatty saying the truth and talking about gut health story. That's us. That's us. That's Kefir Lab. That's Dario, that's Erika. Whatever values mission, everything we aim for is what we really believe. Not just what the business it's meant to be there to be profitable or getting clients or attention. No, that's us. So always stick to truth and stick to your belief first because the business will be your exact reflection

Victoria: 57:29

Yeah.

Dario: 57:30

and build your culture and, stick with it. Be yourself.

Victoria: 57:35

Yeah, yeah. What you're talking about, Dario isn't off topic at all. It's actually what Clifton and I talk about with our clients about how what, whatever is going on with you is gonna show up with your business and it's gonna reflect how you operate. And when you know people have an issue maybe in their like emotional self, they might have an issue connecting with their customer or with their colleagues, with their co-founders, with their clients. Like whatever, how it's like cross-linked to it. It maps perfectly in our proprietary framework. It's exactly what we talk about. So you're spot on in what you're sharing

Clifton: 58:12

We love that. We love that you have come to that yourself. Right?'cause that's what this framework is. It's an observation of what success is. From more heart-centered and authentic place of quantumpreneurs, of change makers here, making incredible businesses take off in their own way, you know, that faster or in a different way than you could even imagine, because you are aligned to yourself, because you are aligned to each other and aligned to the business and the belief of what the business stands for. so as we move wrap up, I know we'll definitely have you two on in the future. I just wanted to say, where could our listeners connect with you? What's the best way for them to interact with you because you have so much wisdom yourselves.

Dario: 59:01

I say the best way to connect that could be definitely through our contact page and our website. We like to be there. Sometimes it's even like weird receiving emails from founder, COO, Erika, but that's us. I don't have to delegate the customer service from some outside third party company. Logistic. we are the face of our company and I'm there to reply your answer and most of the time, and I'm thankful for it, it's Erika, that she always take care of the backend of our email and contacts with customer. And that's probably also what make us unique. I mean, can send it, but I don't want that from tomorrow. Any type of topic come out. But you can just say hi and I'll reply to you Hi. Even through an email. I don't, listen to you. I'll reply to you. We are always there for our customer and, I will be there replying. So emails, website, first. Instagram, we take care ourself for our page.

Victoria: 59:59

and that website is Kefirlab.com and Instagram is at Kefir lab.

Dario: 1:00:07

Yeah.

Victoria: 1:00:07

Yeah. And we have a code for 10% off your purchase with the FOTF 10 linked below in this episode. So I just wanna say how much I really enjoyed this time with you both and sharing the airtime with, Clifton, my partner, hearing about your partnerships, your dynamics together in business. I loved hearing a lot about the relationship dynamics actually too. And What, gut health and boundaries is a whole separate topic that we can talk about on another podcast about just planting a seed there about how having good boundaries with relationships and with one another comes from having good gut health. So just planting a seed for a future episode with you guys that would be an interesting topic for me to cover. And hopefully you guys as well. Thank you both so much for joining us today. Thank you listeners for tuning in. And as we mentioned the contact information for Kefir Lab is below in the show notes.

Clifton: 1:01:05

Awesome. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.